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Aaron Parecki

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  • Hendrik Mans 🐝 https://norden.social/@hmans   •   Dec 16

    @aaronpk That sounds bad :( If a site implements the spec version of ActivityPub, what are its chances of being feasibly well integrated into the Mastodon part of the Fediverse?

    Aaron Parecki
    Extremely low, basically zero. You pretty much have to read Mastodon's docs and do interop testing with Mastodon to have any expectation of it working.

    The inverse is true too. There's also a lot in ActivityPub that you *don't* need to do to at all to interop with Mastodon and others.
    Portland, Oregon • 41°F
    1 like
    Fri, Dec 16, 2022 2:04pm -08:00
  • Hendrik Mans 🐝 https://norden.social/@hmans   •   Dec 16

    I've started reading up on #ActivityPub. So far I had been assuming that the "@user@host" scheme was baked into the protocol, but apparently it isn't, and it's perfectly capable of integrating user-less domains into the Fediverse.

    Have I misread it? (I admit I only did surface level reading so far.)

    If I haven't, wouldn't this mean that instances could (theoretically) also just act as hosting providers for #IndieWeb style domain-as-identity accounts?

    Aaron Parecki
    You're not wrong. The problem is the ActivityPub spec by itself doesn't give you enough to implement a working system, and Mastodon filled in the rest with decisions they made on their own.

    So what actually exists is mostly a Mastodon-specific protocol built on the ActivityPub framework.
    Portland, Oregon, USA • 41°F
    1 like 1 reply 1 mention
    Fri, Dec 16, 2022 2:00pm -08:00
  • Nelson Minar https://tech.lgbt/@nelson   •   Dec 16

    @aaronpk I don't think Mastodon is going to ban you for posting to Mastodon. (Are you auto-copying tweets? I gave up doing that, the social contexts are too different.)

    Aaron Parecki
    The contexts haven't been too different for me up until recently, so I might have to rethink that. Right now I post everything on my website first, and my website sends it out via ActivityPub as well as to Twitter. It isn't really an "auto-copying" thing as much as my website is just the central source of truth.

    I do always have the option of *not* sending a post to Twitter, but I haven't previously considered ActivityPub a separate "destination" as such.
    Portland, Oregon • 40°F
    1 like
    Fri, Dec 16, 2022 12:55pm -08:00
  • Moving from Mastodon to a new instance or to Micro.blog (www.manton.org)
    Fri, Dec 2, 2022 8:32am -08:00 #microblog #activitypub #indieweb
  • mcc https://mastodon.social/@mcc

    @cwebber ActivityPub is the protocol invented by Twitter's "Blue Sky" foundation. It works by appending posts to "the blockchain"β€” the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.

    Portland, Oregon • 39°F
    Thu, Nov 24, 2022 11:48pm +00:00 (liked on Tue, Nov 29, 2022 5:18pm -08:00)
  • Christine Lemmer-Webber https://octodon.social/@cwebber   •   Nov 29

    @erincandescent And also completely in alignment, unshockingly, with Erin that "I thought we were going to work on exactly these kinds of problems in the Social Web Working Group but instead we focused on dodging bullets as two camps sniped at each other"

    And actually a correction: there were *three camps* in the group: the linked data, activitypub, and indieweb people, and two of three of those (activitypub and linked data) hit convergence but I think the indieweb and linked data sniping is just too embedded for ridiculous personal grudge reasons, cough tantek vs timbl cough). Gosh. That was unnecessary hell. Don't do another SocialWG, anyone who wants to re-charter. Do an ActivityPubWG and focus on solving the problems we have, stay focused.

    The Indieweb vs Linked Data sniping things is one of the worst, most absurd fights in the entire standards space. Waste of time, energy, and years of peoples' lives. Certainly took a few off mine.

    Aaron Parecki
    I remember it slightly differently, I don't know that I would call it "convergence". There's no ActivityPub support in Solid or Inrupt for example. More like the Linked Data crowd really wanted to get LD into ActivityPub, which they eventually got for some reason.

    There was also quite a lot of pushback from early ActivityPub implementers against the LD part of the spec. I still maintain the LD part has no value to ActivityPub and it would be better as plain JSON. I'm also 99% sure most implementations ignore the LD part too.
    Portland, Oregon, USA • 39°F
    Tue, Nov 29, 2022 12:40pm -08:00
  • mx alex tax1a - 2020 (2) https://infosec.exchange/@atax1a

    someone on Twitter asked why we think ActivityPub sucks from a protocol and implementation standpoint, and we're porting it over here with minor cleanups:

    several things β€” from a server perspective, the most popular implementation requires that you become an SRE for Nginx, Rails, Postgres, Redis, Sidekiq, and possibly ElasticSearch. IMO, these (especially postgres) are nontrivial services to maintain over the long term.

    once you pick a piece of Activitypub-compatible software, as far as we can tell, you're locked into that particular branch β€” you cannot simply export a Mastodon database into the GotoSocial implementation, you have to set up GotoSocial brand new, and make everyone refollow you

    protocol-wise, we keep finding shocking ways in which activitypub is worse than email; the biggest pecadillo (IMO) is that if i follow 100 people on 3 servers and make a post, my server has to make 100 requests, one per follower, instead of 3 posts, one per server

    the way the protocol works is that if two large instances defederate each other, it causes a notification storm for everyone downstream that can overwhelm smaller instances

    so! if you run your own, you pretty much have to become a cache SRE, web-tier SRE, DB SRE, queue SRE, Rails SRE, you have to know how to secure unix systems, mitigate attacks, and if you're responsible, you have to do replication and backups.

    sure, Docker has made it so that you can stand up all of this easily, but long-term maintenance? are you really confident that you know what you're doing here? Oh, sure, you've offloaded a lot of this to your cloud provider, but then you're now dependent on that provider continuing to work. Unless you're a large corporation with a secure contract, your cloud provider most likely doesn't care about you.

    in short, standing up our own mastondong is signing up for a whole lot of Actual Work that we don't really want to do just to talk with friends, and we absolutely must stress that we both worked for twitter for 6 years and run our own **email server* for 21*

    #We_Are_Plural_Not_An_Entire_SRE_Org

    Portland, Oregon • 42°F
    Thu, Nov 24, 2022 5:46pm +00:00 (liked on Fri, Nov 25, 2022 5:55pm -08:00) #we_are_plural_not_an_entire_sre_org
  • Gabe Kangas https://social.gabekangas.com/users/gabek   •   Nov 24
    It was a mistake that ActivityPub Client-to-Server never took off and I think we'll pay for it one day.

    Right now one person calls the shots for the client APIs of multiple projects because all the projects want to be compatible with the biggest server implementation. This feels wrong, but I don't know what the solution is at this point.
    Aaron Parecki
    Frankly I don't think that part of the spec was well thought out, and I also disagree with the fundamentals of how it works. I suspect it didn't take off because other people feel the same.

    The fact that Mastodon dictates the default posting API isn't good, but also isn't surprising, and it's definitely something I would like to see change! I'm pretty sure the reason that happened was because people were already writing Mastodon clients before Mastodon adopted ActivityPub in the first place.
    Portland, Oregon • 48°F
    1 reply
    Thu, Nov 24, 2022 4:52pm -08:00
  • Gabe Kangas https://social.gabekangas.com/users/gabek
    It was a mistake that ActivityPub Client-to-Server never took off and I think we'll pay for it one day.

    Right now one person calls the shots for the client APIs of multiple projects because all the projects want to be compatible with the biggest server implementation. This feels wrong, but I don't know what the solution is at this point.
    Portland, Oregon • 48°F
    Thu, Nov 24, 2022 9:35pm +00:00 (liked on Thu, Nov 24, 2022 4:44pm -08:00)
  • Christine Lemmer-Webber https://octodon.social/@cwebber

    This is the best article about the recent rise in the fediverse I've seen! https://thenewstack.io/devs-are-excited-by-activitypub-open-protocol-for-mastodon/

    And it opens with a quote by @evan and has several by me and even @blaine appears! Someone actually did their homework!

    Relatedly, here's a lovely interview with @evan from just a few months back! https://thenewstack.io/challenges-of-creating-a-decentralized-open-source-twitter/

    Portland, Oregon • 48°F
    Wed, Nov 23, 2022 4:09am +00:00 (liked on Tue, Nov 22, 2022 9:01pm -08:00)
  • Eric Schultz (parody) https://floss.social/@wwahammy

    I think it's funny that ActivityPub has done more decentralization with a few million in total funding versus what blockchain did with tens of billions.

    Portland, Oregon • 37°F
    Mon, Nov 21, 2022 4:37am +00:00 (liked on Mon, Nov 21, 2022 7:48am -08:00)
  • Simon Willison https://fedi.simonwillison.net/@simon

    @pilhofer Twitter just rug-pulled after 16 years (and an IPO) of me trusting them to be a good steward for my principal online presence

    I don't see how ANY <month old startup could possibly convince me to trust them instead

    If it's not implemented in a way that lets me take control of my own destiny (ala Mastodon/ActivityPub) I'm just not interested

    Portland, Oregon • 37°F
    Mon, Nov 21, 2022 3:32pm +00:00 (liked on Mon, Nov 21, 2022 7:46am -08:00)
  • Vittorio https://twitter.com/vibronet   •   Nov 21
    Thanks! Hoping in the invisible hand of the market to come up with something turnkey πŸ˜…
    Aaron Parecki
    The closest to that right now is probably https://micro.blog

    It hosts your website, supports ActivityPub natively, and can also cross-post to Twitter

    https://help.micro.blog/t/cross-posting-to-twitter-medium-mastodon-and-more/85
    Portland, Oregon, USA • 43°F
    1 like 1 reply
    Sun, Nov 20, 2022 6:01pm -08:00
  • Vittorio https://twitter.com/vibronet   •   Nov 21
    Do you post the same content on both Twitter and Mastodon? If so, do you have a client to recommend?
    I just feel I won’t post on Mastodon unless it’s the path of least resistance
    Aaron Parecki
    You are not going to like my answer, but it is the path of least resistance for me.

    I post *everything* first to my website, and my website handles syndicating it to Twitter and via ActivityPub.
    Portland, Oregon • 43°F
    4 likes 2 replies
    Sun, Nov 20, 2022 5:53pm -08:00
  • Chris Messina πŸ€ https://twitter.com/chrismessina
    Mastodon has been getting quite a bit of buzz lately (an overnight success that took six years!) β€” and if you're curious about the early origin of its underlying protocol (ActivityPub), check out my interview on @Podnews with @samsethi:

    https://open.spotify.com/episode/5C3N82NIqWa6wJXBhJJDVo?si=VV65aSTDTu2R7Ql6RW__Ng
    Portland, Oregon • 34°F
    Sat, Nov 19, 2022 2:43pm +00:00 (liked on Sat, Nov 19, 2022 7:02am -08:00)
  • Aaron Parecki https://aaronparecki.com/   •   Nov 18
    Ok we actually should hang out again tho since we're both in Portland instead of waiting to randomly bump in to each other in Lisbon like before πŸ˜…
    Aaron Parecki
    ohh I just realized that the reason I was in Lisbon was because I was at one of the W3C meetings of the Social Web Working Group, working on the IndieWeb/ActivityPub specs! How poetic. πŸ˜‡
    Portland, Oregon, USA • 39°F
    1 like 1 reply
    Fri, Nov 18, 2022 8:47pm -08:00
  • Tom MacWright https://twitter.com/tmcw
    can a blog be an activitypub server, so i don't have to do some rss->mastodon zapier hook or whatever, you could just follow a website directly in mastodon?
    Portland, Oregon • 40°F
    Sat, Nov 19, 2022 2:51am +00:00 (liked on Fri, Nov 18, 2022 7:30pm -08:00)
  • πŸ‡³πŸ‡± Jeroen πŸ‡ΊπŸ‡¦ https://fosstodon.org/@jeroen94704   •   Nov 18

    @aaronpk What's the unit on the y-axis? If it's posts-per-day that doesn't look too bad, but I suspect that's not it πŸ˜€

    Aaron Parecki
    Yeah it is! well not "posts" exactly, but all ActivityPub messages received per day.
    Portland, Oregon • 45°F
    1 reply
    Fri, Nov 18, 2022 11:36am -08:00
  • Kat Moss https://social.platypush.tech/@cambridgeport90   •   Nov 18

    @aaronpk Ah. Weren't you the one who wrote it's PHP implementation? Or didn't you help with it?

    Aaron Parecki
    I later rebuilt an PHP ActivityPub implementation as a separate service, API only. But I only use it for bots. I've been meaning to rip out my internal mess and switch over to that but I'm not excited about that project.
    Portland, Oregon • 36°F
    1 reply
    Fri, Nov 18, 2022 7:45am -08:00
  • Kat Moss https://social.platypush.tech/@cambridgeport90   •   Nov 18

    @aaronpk Isn't your whole site a custom pile of code? And that's why only parts of p3k are fully open source?

    Aaron Parecki
    Yes, but the ActivityPub stuff in particular is pretty messy.
    Portland, Oregon • 36°F
    1 reply
    Fri, Nov 18, 2022 7:39am -08:00
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Hi, I'm Aaron Parecki, Director of Identity Standards at Okta, and co-founder of IndieWebCamp. I maintain oauth.net, write and consult about OAuth, and participate in the OAuth Working Group at the IETF. I also help people learn about video production and livestreaming. (detailed bio)

I've been tracking my location since 2008 and I wrote 100 songs in 100 days. I've spoken at conferences around the world about owning your data, OAuth, quantified self, and explained why R is a vowel. Read more.

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