@aaronpk That sounds bad :( If a site implements the spec version of ActivityPub, what are its chances of being feasibly well integrated into the Mastodon part of the Fediverse?
@aaronpk That sounds bad :( If a site implements the spec version of ActivityPub, what are its chances of being feasibly well integrated into the Mastodon part of the Fediverse?
I've started reading up on #ActivityPub. So far I had been assuming that the "@user@host" scheme was baked into the protocol, but apparently it isn't, and it's perfectly capable of integrating user-less domains into the Fediverse.
Have I misread it? (I admit I only did surface level reading so far.)
If I haven't, wouldn't this mean that instances could (theoretically) also just act as hosting providers for #IndieWeb style domain-as-identity accounts?
@aaronpk I don't think Mastodon is going to ban you for posting to Mastodon. (Are you auto-copying tweets? I gave up doing that, the social contexts are too different.)
@cwebber ActivityPub is the protocol invented by Twitter's "Blue Sky" foundation. It works by appending posts to "the blockchain"β the free encyclopedia that anyone can edit.
@erincandescent And also completely in alignment, unshockingly, with Erin that "I thought we were going to work on exactly these kinds of problems in the Social Web Working Group but instead we focused on dodging bullets as two camps sniped at each other"
And actually a correction: there were *three camps* in the group: the linked data, activitypub, and indieweb people, and two of three of those (activitypub and linked data) hit convergence but I think the indieweb and linked data sniping is just too embedded for ridiculous personal grudge reasons, cough tantek vs timbl cough). Gosh. That was unnecessary hell. Don't do another SocialWG, anyone who wants to re-charter. Do an ActivityPubWG and focus on solving the problems we have, stay focused.
The Indieweb vs Linked Data sniping things is one of the worst, most absurd fights in the entire standards space. Waste of time, energy, and years of peoples' lives. Certainly took a few off mine.
someone on Twitter asked why we think ActivityPub sucks from a protocol and implementation standpoint, and we're porting it over here with minor cleanups:
several things β from a server perspective, the most popular implementation requires that you become an SRE for Nginx, Rails, Postgres, Redis, Sidekiq, and possibly ElasticSearch. IMO, these (especially postgres) are nontrivial services to maintain over the long term.
once you pick a piece of Activitypub-compatible software, as far as we can tell, you're locked into that particular branch β you cannot simply export a Mastodon database into the GotoSocial implementation, you have to set up GotoSocial brand new, and make everyone refollow you
protocol-wise, we keep finding shocking ways in which activitypub is worse than email; the biggest pecadillo (IMO) is that if i follow 100 people on 3 servers and make a post, my server has to make 100 requests, one per follower, instead of 3 posts, one per server
the way the protocol works is that if two large instances defederate each other, it causes a notification storm for everyone downstream that can overwhelm smaller instances
so! if you run your own, you pretty much have to become a cache SRE, web-tier SRE, DB SRE, queue SRE, Rails SRE, you have to know how to secure unix systems, mitigate attacks, and if you're responsible, you have to do replication and backups.
sure, Docker has made it so that you can stand up all of this easily, but long-term maintenance? are you really confident that you know what you're doing here? Oh, sure, you've offloaded a lot of this to your cloud provider, but then you're now dependent on that provider continuing to work. Unless you're a large corporation with a secure contract, your cloud provider most likely doesn't care about you.
in short, standing up our own mastondong is signing up for a whole lot of Actual Work that we don't really want to do just to talk with friends, and we absolutely must stress that we both worked for twitter for 6 years and run our own **email server* for 21*
This is the best article about the recent rise in the fediverse I've seen! https://thenewstack.io/devs-are-excited-by-activitypub-open-protocol-for-mastodon/
And it opens with a quote by @evan and has several by me and even @blaine appears! Someone actually did their homework!
Relatedly, here's a lovely interview with @evan from just a few months back! https://thenewstack.io/challenges-of-creating-a-decentralized-open-source-twitter/
@pilhofer Twitter just rug-pulled after 16 years (and an IPO) of me trusting them to be a good steward for my principal online presence
I don't see how ANY <month old startup could possibly convince me to trust them instead
If it's not implemented in a way that lets me take control of my own destiny (ala Mastodon/ActivityPub) I'm just not interested
@aaronpk What's the unit on the y-axis? If it's posts-per-day that doesn't look too bad, but I suspect that's not it π
@aaronpk Ah. Weren't you the one who wrote it's PHP implementation? Or didn't you help with it?
@aaronpk Isn't your whole site a custom pile of code? And that's why only parts of p3k are fully open source?